Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:57:18 EST
Subject: Fwd: [FRCtech2002] Digest Number 38



------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 4 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. RE: On parts usage and fabrication
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      2. Re: RE:  Gearing Up and Gearing Down Drill Motors
           From: StAnne <stanne@mnsi.net>
      3. Window Motors
           From: "imsh80" <imsh80@yahoo.com>
      4. Re: Ramming of Robots
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:04:59 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: On parts usage and fabrication

A lot of teams are still posting to ask if they an use this 
material, or do that to that material...  The point of this 
competition is to manufacture whatever you need out of the allowed 
raw materials, as long as you don't violate the weight limit and the 
robot size limit, or any other rules that control manufacturing or 
the game or anything else.  See message 592 for detailed explanation.


>Would Expanded aluminum mesh which comes in sheets less than 1/4 th 
>inch thick qualify under "Additional hardware:  aluminum plate up 
>to 1/4th inch thick"?

A)  Yes.  Expanded aluminum mesh less than 1/4" thick will qualify 
under "Additional hardware:  aluminum plate up to 1/4th inch thick".

>quick verification on extruded aluminum, the max allowable is 
>2"x3".  We just realized we are using metric extrusion (40mm x 
>80mm).  The dimension in question is the 3".  The metric equilivent 
>makes our extrusion 3.1496". Is this allowable?

A)  No.  Extruded aluminum is only allowed if the cross-section fit 
inside 2" x 3" box.  

>We would like to use a piece of 10" diameter stove pipe as a ball 
>loader. Will this be considered as steel plate per the additional 
>materials rules? 
>If not, are we allowed to roll a piece of steel in its place? If 
>so, what thickness would we be allowed to use?

A)  Unless you can find 10" diameter stovepipe in small parts, you 
may not use it on your robot.  However, you are allowed to use Steel 
Plates, any amount up to 1/4" thick and roll that into any shape you 
want.

>We are over weight and are looking to use fiberglass lamenating to 
>save weight.  The 1/8" max for fiberglass. Is that per layer or per 
>stucture? In other words can we put 1/8" fiberglass on both sides
>of a piece 1/4" plywood or a total of 1/8" for both sides? Can we 
>make a structure say 3 layers of 1/4" plywood with 1/8" fiberglass 
>between the plywood and on the outer surface with the structure 
>layed up into a solid unit? 
>As for the Plywood. The additional materials list has 1 sheet of 
>1/4" plywood. Is underlayment o.k even if it is a little under 1/4" 
>or does it have to be exactly 1/4"?

A)  Yes, you may stack up layers of fiberglass, as long as each 
layer is 1/8" max thickness.  So you may make the structure you 
described, as long as each layer is within the thickness limit.  

You have to get exactly 1/4" thick plywood sheet.  However, you are 
allowed to modify that plywood sheet and make it thinner by sanding 
it down or other means of modification.

See message 83 and 393 for rulings regarding usage of fiberglass.


>Is it allowed to connect two 1/8" fiberglass pieces together such 
>that the joint plus the pieces is greater than 1/8", providing that 
>each piece was originally less than 1/8"? I have been asking a lot 
>of questions about fiberglass because I am one of the only students 
>on my team that knows how to fiberglass and my fiberglass parts 
>appear to be superior to Aluminum parts, thus far. This 1/8" rule, 
>in my opinion, is ridiculous. The limits on Aluminum are far less 
>severe than fiberglass and it forces people to use Aluminum on 
>their robot. 
>Since small parts sells all kinds of metal parts, I feel any amount 
>of fiberglass should be allowed provided the robot weighs less than 
>130lbs. May be next year!!!

A)  Yes.  See above for explanation.

--------
FIRST KL





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:26:05 -0500
   From: StAnne <stanne@mnsi.net>
Subject: Re: RE:  Gearing Up and Gearing Down Drill Motors

If you go to Team Delphi (team #45 techokats) they have a dimensioned
layout for a gear shifting system using the servo motors that came in
the kit.  We have built it to the specs provided and it works great


frcengineers wrote:

>  >The drill motors given to us in the kit of parts have the ability
> >to change speeds (i.e. gear up and gear down) using the
> >additional "attachment" that also came in the kit (was part of the
> >drill before you took it apart). In order to take advantage of this
> >gear up/gear down feature, we somehow have to move a small metal
> >bar located on the side of the "attachment."
>
> >Question: The only feasible way we can do this is by using a
> >solenoid that physically moves this bar up and down. However, I
> >couldn't find solenoids at Small Parts Inc. and they're not on the
> >Additional List of Parts. How do we go about taking advantage of
> >the gear up/gear down feature of the drill motor???
>
> A)  You can download the pneumatic manual in the FIRST website at
> http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/doc_art1.htm .  In the pneumatic
> manual you will find FIRST Pneumatic Component Bill of Material, and
> the Order Form.  See rule M13 and M14 for specifics regarding
> pneumatic components.  Also, you may use up to 5 cylinders on the
> robot.  See message 334 and 362.
>
> As for taking advantage of the gear up/gear down feature of the
> drill motor on the drill transmission, you may also try using the
> motors included in the kit this year.  Beside using pneumatics,
> teams made successful "gear shifter" using servo motors from the kit.
>
>
>
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT
                         [Click Here!]

>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FRCtech2002-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:14:16 -0000
   From: "imsh80" <imsh80@yahoo.com>
Subject: Window Motors

We were wondering where we can purchase the 85511 AC010 MMR510-439 
JIDECO 69K2 A window motors.

Team 223




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 16:29:46 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ramming of Robots

Q: why is FIRST heading into battlebot mode?  I am hoping to have a 
unit for display, training, recruitment, etc after the
                 competition.  To spend over $6000 and perhaps be 
destroyed seems to me to be a giant step backwards. 
                 - cam brown
                 team 360

A: Cam, be assured that we're not going into "Battlebot" mode. People 
invest a lot of time and money and sweat building the robots; we're 
not going to allow actions that would obviously and deliberately 
damage or risk damaging the robots.


                       ----- Original Message -----
                       From: frcengineers
                       Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 12:44 PM
                       To: FRCtech2002@yahoogroups.com
                       Subject: [FRCtech2002] Re: Ramming of Robots
                        
                       Q: The analogy with football is good, but still 
worrisome.  If our 
                                       robot's intent is to change the 
direction of another 
                       robot (not to 
                                       damage it), by ramming it at 
high speed, would this be 
                                       judged "malicious" and 
disqualify our robot?

                                       Similarly, if our intent is to 
make the other robot 
                       "fumble" by 
                                       dislodging the goal from its 
grasp, would the 
                       high-speed collision be 
                                       judged malicious and disqualify 
our robot?

                                       Would the design of the other 
robot influence the 
                       judges' decision?  
                                       That is, if the opposing robot 
looks rugged, then the 
                       judges might 
                                       rule in our favor, but if the 
opposing robot is 
                       flimsy, they may rule 
                                       against us.

                       A: Worrisome? Hmm. What you're asking us to do 
is allow you to blitz
                       the quarterback with no possibility of penalty, 
no matter what you do.

                       If you've ever been a football fan, think about 
it. Your actions would 
                       probably be taken as malicious. There's rules 
in football about 
                       people hitting the quarterback in the head (at 
all) and
                       about unnecessary roughness. This is probably 
because in the early 
                       days of football, the referees' union got tired 
of hearing, "Hey ref I 
                       wasn't trying to hurt him, I was just trying to 
make him fumble!". Or, 
                       "Hey, he's a wimpy quarterback! A tough one 
would have taken that hit!". 
                       In the NFL, they don't judge whether the 
linebacker is roughing 
                       the passer by whether the QB is Dante Culpepper 
or Doug Flutie.

                       -MW




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/