Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:31:48 EST
Subject: Fwd: [FRCtech2002] Digest Number 30


------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: FedEx shipping to Regionals
           From: FIRST Robotics <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      2. Re: Active Puppet Decorations
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      3. Re: timing belts
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      4. Re: Active Puppet Decorations
           From: "acti42" <acti@provide.net>
      5. Re: Active Puppet Decorations
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      6. potentiomiters
           From: "imsh80" <imsh80@yahoo.com>
      7. Re: potentiomiters
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      8. Clippard cylinders to replace Bimba?
           From: "kilrath2001" <kilrath@hotmail.com>
      9. wiring the compressor to the controller
           From: "dakotafox74" <dakotafox74@yahoo.com>
     10. Re: Clippard cylinders to replace Bimba?
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     11. Re: wiring the compressor to the controller
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     12. light
           From: "bardock_2010" <bardock_2010@yahoo.com>
     13. Re: light
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     14. Re: dragging robot - a change?
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     15. TEAMS TRADING :  YEA OR NAY? Spare parts? FedEx vouchers?
           From: "rageowner" <ragabash01@hotmail.com>
     16. Re: TEAMS TRADING :  YEA OR NAY? Spare parts? FedEx vouchers?
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     17. Re: timing belts
           From: "glenncapone" <gcapone@aac-robot.com>
     18. Re: Custom PCB
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     19. Re: timing belts
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     20. Hot Melt Glue for connector securing
           From: Keith McClary <acti@provide.net>
     21. Re: Loopholes
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     22. Re: Hot Melt Glue for connector securing
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     23. air storage tanks
           From: "north66203" <north66203@yahoo.com>
     24. Pneumatics
           From: "deltafrathouse" <deltafrathouse@yahoo.com>
     25. Re: Repair parts after a Regional
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>


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Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:35:07 -0800 (PST)
   From: FIRST Robotics <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FedEx shipping to Regionals

Q: We are attending two regionals, but not the
championship.  We'd like 
to have FedEx send the robot to Houston, then from
Houston to the San 
Jose event.  We can pick up the robot from the San
Jose event.  Can we 
consider the second event 'home'?

Thanks,

Eric Reed
De Anza High School

A: No, the second regional event cannot be considered home.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com


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Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:46:06 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Active Puppet Decorations


> Last year, one team had a robot whose ramp tilter consisted
> as a hand on an arm.  It "waved to the audience" from the
> balanced ramp position, causing great crowd excitement.
> 
> We thought that was EXTREMELY cool, and are considering
> something similar, but DISJOINT from a game action widget.
> 
> We wish to consider "animatronic" decorations.
> Rule M9 DOES allow for "non-functional" decorations.
> BUT... Is "non-functional" in this sense referring to 
> the decoration's action WRT the GAME, or ANY motion 
> in general?  
> 
> In other words:
> 
> 1) Does gearing a random decoration to a game device for 
> motion power (like the old "lawn wind propeller powered 
> animations"), or using a spare kit motor now require the 
> decoration to be made from allowed materials, or can 
> it still be anything?   Ex: Can we attach a commercial
> doll to a crank driven by a kit motor to make it APPEAR 
> for entertainment value that it is "winding up the machine"?
> Dolls aren't on the AHL.
> 
A) Yes. The decoration should never affect the outcome of the match.

> We were concerned that because it ONLY moves (or 
> poses) in certain ways when other specific actions 
> or robot machine states occur, its mere presence 
> MIGHT be forbidden as some kind of "illegal indicator 
> or active game device not on the Additional 
> Materials List", like having one too many LED.
> 
> 2) If active decorations ARE allowed, do we HAVE to 
> use kit/AHL parts to move it? Since it is a mere
> decoration, for example may we add more servos 
> (or motors not in the kit) JUST for that purpose? 
> They would not be involved in game action, 
> and would still be triggered by an allowed power 
> control device (Victor, Spike, spare PWM outputs 
> running RC servos, etc.).
> 
A) You can use whatever you want to use just for the non-functional 
decoration.  Note that there can be servo performance degradation 
caused by adding too many servos to the PWM ports due to current 
limits on the PWM ports. If you more about this contact Innovation 
First.

---
FIRST MRT





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Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:11:47 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: timing belts


> A review of the parts rules came up with the following 
interpretation 
> on timing belts.
> We are allowed up to 20 feet of timing belts under unlimited 
hardware 
> and we can use an unlimited length of timing belts purchased from 
> Small Parts. Is that correct?

A) Please see the timing belt update in Team Update #1.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 4
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:56:27 -0000
   From: "acti42" <acti@provide.net>
Subject: Re: Active Puppet Decorations

--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "frcengineers" <frcengineers@y...> wrote:
> > We wish to consider "animatronic" decorations.
> > [May we do that, is "non-funtional" GAME nonfunctionality
> > or ANY motion, may we tap a spare motor or other machine
> > motion w/o it being an "indicator", and does it have to 
> > be made from the motors on hand and/or be on the AHL?]

> A) Yes. The decoration should never affect the outcome of 
> the match.
> [...]
> A) You can use whatever you want to use just for the 
> non-functional decoration.

That answer didn't quite parse out right as I asked multiple
questions, so to be absolutely clear I'd like to verify this
interpretation of your answer:

1) We MAY make animated decorations, and it is the SAME as
   NON-animated, in that we can use ANYTHING, including
   motors and materials not on the AHL, AS LONG AS it does
   NOT affect the game outcome.
2) "Non-Funtional" ONLY refers to the game itself, and 
   NOT motion in general.
3) We MAY tie it to a moving part or spare kit motor 
   for its motion.
4) It will NOT be banned as some kind of "unlawful 
   extra LED indicator" if the puppet's actions happen 
   for entertainment value to somehow correlate or 
   reflect something happening on the robot.

Is this all correct?  If not, please clarify.

Thanks!
- Keith McClary, Advisor, Huron High Rat Pack Team 830
ACTI - Automation Computer Technologies, Inc.





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Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:24:27 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Active Puppet Decorations

> > > We wish to consider "animatronic" decorations.
> > > [May we do that, is "non-funtional" GAME nonfunctionality
> > > or ANY motion, may we tap a spare motor or other machine
> > > motion w/o it being an "indicator", and does it have to 
> > > be made from the motors on hand and/or be on the AHL?]
> 
> > A) Yes. The decoration should never affect the outcome of 
> > the match.
> > [...]
> > A) You can use whatever you want to use just for the 
> > non-functional decoration.
> 
> That answer didn't quite parse out right as I asked multiple
> questions, so to be absolutely clear I'd like to verify this
> interpretation of your answer:
> 
> 1) We MAY make animated decorations, and it is the SAME as
>    NON-animated, in that we can use ANYTHING, including
>    motors and materials not on the AHL, AS LONG AS it does
>    NOT affect the game outcome.

A) Yes.  You may make animated decorations and it is the same as 
Non-animated, in that you can use anything, including motors and 
materials no on the Additional Hardware list, as long as it does not 
affect the game outcome.  It also counts towards your weight limit for 
 your robot.

> 2) "Non-Funtional" ONLY refers to the game itself, and 
>    NOT motion in general.

A) Yes. Non-funtional does not mean non-moving.

> 3) We MAY tie it to a moving part or spare kit motor 
>    for its motion.

A) Yes, you may tie it to a moving part for it's motion.

> 4) It will NOT be banned as some kind of "unlawful 
>    extra LED indicator" if the puppet's actions happen 
>    for entertainment value to somehow correlate or 
>    reflect something happening on the robot.

A) This will not be banned.

---
FIRST MRT





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Message: 6
   Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:47:14 -0000
   From: "imsh80" <imsh80@yahoo.com>
Subject: potentiomiters

I did not see potentiomiters on parts list. They were not in the 
crate.what is the deal with potentiomiters




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Message: 7
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:31:22 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: potentiomiters


> I did not see potentiomiters on parts list. They were not in the 
> crate.what is the deal with potentiomiters

A) Potentiometers are on the Additional Hardware list in the Manual.  
Please see them listed on the top of the second page of the additional 
hardware list in the Manual.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:07:52 -0000
   From: "kilrath2001" <kilrath@hotmail.com>
Subject: Clippard cylinders to replace Bimba?

We are a sponsor of a local team and we sell Clippard products.  We 
would like to use Clippard cylinders over the Bimba/Parker choices.  
The Clippard cylinders are identical contruction and dimensions to 
the Bimba cylinders (Bimba, did after copy the Clippard design).  Is 
this allowed as long as they have the same mount, size, contruction, 
and are otherwise interchangable?

And along the same lines we also represent Bosch extruded Alum.  In 
next year's rules would you please consider a change to 90mm from the 
3" limit?




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Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:01:41 -0000
   From: "dakotafox74" <dakotafox74@yahoo.com>
Subject: wiring the compressor to the controller

Ok,  Here is one.

I am helping to mentor a team at a small schoo in ND.  There are no 
Engineers on the team.  There are none available.  There are two 
electronic technicians.  I am one.  

I have been over the books and I cannot figure out how to hook the 
compressor up to the robot controller.  

It appears to me that we are supposed to wire the pressure switch so 
it puts ground to one of the digital inputs and this in turn will put 
5v out at one of the relay outputs.

It looks like relays 5-8 are not used.  I would like to use one of 
these for this puropsse and also another one to turn on the rotating 
light.

Would you tell me where I can find a table or schematic that says, 
for example, "digital input pin 18 is relay 6 red,  digital input pin 
19 is relay 6 yellow,  digital input pin 20 is relay 7 red, digital 
input 21 is relay 7 yellow, and so forth."

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "Dillard, Gary J" <gary.j.dillard@l...> 
wrote:
> At the risk of getting flooded with questions from
> rookies.....................
>  
> Team 180 SPAM (and I'm sure almost all of the other veteran teams) 
would
> love to help out with mentoring rookie teams, maybe helping to 
filter out
> some of the questions about general rules and materials before they 
get
> posted and save you some time.  Problem is, I suspect many of the 
rookie
> teams either don't feel right "bothering" other teams or don't know 
the
> avenues to ask questions other than this forum.  We posted our team 
as
> willing to mentor and haven't received any requests (that I'm aware 
of -
> hopefully our website links are working), and I have no success 
contacting
> the rookie teams in our state - either they don't have a website up 
or the
> website listed with FIRST is a generic school site.
>  
> Rookie teams - You aren't bothering us!  We'd all love to help, 
just ask -
> there are no dumb questions, and if your robot is better it makes 
us compete
> better.  Use the mentoring maps, check out the forums at Delphi.  
If you
> come across a team website with a message board or guest book, sign 
in and
> let them know you need help.
>  
> 
> Gary J. Dillard 
> Lockheed Martin - Perry Technologies 
> 561-494-2437



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Message: 10
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:23:36 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Clippard cylinders to replace Bimba?


> We are a sponsor of a local team and we sell Clippard products.  We 
> would like to use Clippard cylinders over the Bimba/Parker choices. 
 
> The Clippard cylinders are identical contruction and dimensions to 
> the Bimba cylinders (Bimba, did after copy the Clippard design).  Is 
> this allowed as long as they have the same mount, size, contruction, 
> and are otherwise interchangable?
> 

A) No. You must use the ones provide in the Pneumatics kit.

> And along the same lines we also represent Bosch extruded Alum.  In 
> next year's rules would you please consider a change to 90mm from 
the 
> 3" limit?

A) We would consider it.

---
FIRST MRT



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Message: 11
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:40:40 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: wiring the compressor to the controller


> Ok,  Here is one.
> 
> I am helping to mentor a team at a small schoo in ND.  There are no 
> Engineers on the team.  There are none available.  There are two 
> electronic technicians.  I am one.  
> 
> I have been over the books and I cannot figure out how to hook the 
> compressor up to the robot controller.  
> 
> It appears to me that we are supposed to wire the pressure switch so 
> it puts ground to one of the digital inputs and this in turn will 
put 
> 5v out at one of the relay outputs.
> 
> It looks like relays 5-8 are not used.  I would like to use one of 
> these for this puropsse and also another one to turn on the rotating 
> light.
> 
> Would you tell me where I can find a table or schematic that says, 
> for example, "digital input pin 18 is relay 6 red,  digital input 
pin 
> 19 is relay 6 yellow,  digital input pin 20 is relay 7 red, digital 
> input 21 is relay 7 yellow, and so forth."
> 
A) This information was provided with the Innovation First 
documentation.  Please see their website for another copy of the 
documentation if necessary.




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Message: 12
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:36:18 -0000
   From: "bardock_2010" <bardock_2010@yahoo.com>
Subject: light

will the weight of the light be deducted from the weigh in scince it 
really only helps show alliance's and isnt vitail to robot operation? 
thanks




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Message: 13
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:53:21 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: light


> will the weight of the light be deducted from the weigh in scince it 
> really only helps show alliance's and isnt vitail to robot 
operation? 

A) It will be counted in the weight of the robot.  Everything on the 
robot will count towards it's weight limit, including any decorations 
(see rule M9) and bumpers on your robot (see rule M18).




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Message: 14
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:58:24 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dragging robot - a change?

> I'm surprised by your response to the question about dragging a robot 
> - does this mean that another robot can legally grab any part of our 
> robot (center mechanisms, power or control cables, pneumatic tubing) 
> and pull on it full force without being disqualified?  Grabbing 
> indescriminately doesn't have to be malicious to be damaging, and this 
> is a MAJOR change from past years' rulings - a distinction has always 
> been made between pushing on structure or extended mechanisms, which 
> are designed to take those loads, and pulling on general components.  
> Is this BattleBots or FIRST?

A) The only difference is that we are not attempting to list exactly what is and is not allowed during robot interaction because it is too problematic.  As always, per Rule DQ3, if the referees decide that an action taken by an alliance is malicious, then the alliance will be disqualified.  As always, per Rule GM17, we expect teams to design robots to withstand impacts and tugging on major structural components by other robots.

It would thus be wise to protect fragile elements, such as the robot controller, under protective (but transparent - see Rule C24) covers.  Similarly, it would be wise to run wires and tubing inside protective channels such as EMT or ENT (listed in the Additional Hardware List), under protective covers, or closely against the surface as with cable ties and cable tie mounting bases (which count as fasteners per the Additional Hardware List).

Obvious risks of entanglement, such as hook-like features on arms, large dangling loops of wire or tubing, etc. will be disallowed.  This should help eliminate "easy" opportunities for inadvertent "gutting" of robots.

In summary, think of something like American football as our model of allowed interaction, not a knife fight.  Plan accordingly.

-----
ER





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Message: 15
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:52:20 -0000
   From: "rageowner" <ragabash01@hotmail.com>
Subject: TEAMS TRADING :  YEA OR NAY? Spare parts? FedEx vouchers?

Is it acceptable for teams to trade parts or components from their 
Kits which they are not using, assuming the extra parts are for use 
as backup or spare parts? 
(We have 3 teams mentored in our alliance- one is not using the 
Atwood Mobile /Chiapua motors & cluster gears, one is not using any 
pneumatics, and the third isn't using drill motors /trannies.)
We would like to trade around for spare parts.

ALSO: Does anyone have any info on a forum or board where teams are 
posting this sort of info? Sort of a swap-meet forum for teams to 
acquire parts from other people's kits strictly for backup purposes?

ALSO: How about the same for FedEx shipping? If a team is only going 
to 1 regional and no nationals, can they donate their shipping 
vouchers to another team doing multiple regional events? Can teams 
trade out their FedEx vouchers freely so that less-well-funded teams 
may go to more events?

ALSO: If we ordered parts from SPI or some other vendor, can we 
donate these items to some other team?

(PLEASE NOTE: I say "donate" because in the spirit of Gracious 
Professionalism, it would be quite poor sportsmanship to SELL these 
items, eh?)


Rageowner@yahoo.com
RAGErobotics





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Message: 16
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:07:11 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TEAMS TRADING :  YEA OR NAY? Spare parts? FedEx vouchers?


> Is it acceptable for teams to trade parts or components from their 
> Kits which they are not using, assuming the extra parts are for use 
> as backup or spare parts? 
> (We have 3 teams mentored in our alliance- one is not using the 
> Atwood Mobile /Chiapua motors & cluster gears, one is not using any 
> pneumatics, and the third isn't using drill motors /trannies.)
> We would like to trade around for spare parts.

A) Yes you may trade parts for spares.
 
> ALSO: Does anyone have any info on a forum or board where teams are 
> posting this sort of info? Sort of a swap-meet forum for teams to 
> acquire parts from other people's kits strictly for backup purposes?
> 
A) Try www.chiefdelphi.com

> ALSO: How about the same for FedEx shipping? If a team is only going 
> to 1 regional and no nationals, can they donate their shipping 
> vouchers to another team doing multiple regional events? Can teams 
> trade out their FedEx vouchers freely so that less-well-funded teams 
> may go to more events?

A) NO.  

> ALSO: If we ordered parts from SPI or some other vendor, can we 
> donate these items to some other team?

A) Yes.
> 
> (PLEASE NOTE: I say "donate" because in the spirit of Gracious 
> Professionalism, it would be quite poor sportsmanship to SELL these 
> items, eh?)
> 

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 17
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:40:08 -0000
   From: "glenncapone" <gcapone@aac-robot.com>
Subject: Re: timing belts

I'm sorry to ask what seems like the same question again.
Under the "Rope, Belts, & Chain" section of the AHL there were two 
separate entries:
"Chain/Belt  |  Any length"
and
"Timing Belt  |  Up to 20', single or double sided"

In tmup1 under "ADDITIONAL HARDWARE LIST CORRECTIONS" it reads:
"The <timing> belt entry has been changed to the following:" 
"<Belt> |  Any size, Any length for use with pulleys" <emphasis mine>

Does this mean timing belt material may not be used for wheels or 
tracks if not run on or attached to pulleys?
If so; the timing belt may run inverted over a "flat belt" pulley 
with the teeth facing out, ie. treads?

--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "frcengineers" <frcengineers@y...> wrote:
> 
> > A review of the parts rules came up with the following 
> interpretation 
> > on timing belts.
> > We are allowed up to 20 feet of timing belts under unlimited 
> hardware 
> > and we can use an unlimited length of timing belts purchased from 
> > Small Parts. Is that correct?
> 
> A) Please see the timing belt update in Team Update #1.
> 
> ---
> FIRST MRT




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Message: 18
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:08:05 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Custom PCB

> 1) Can a custom PCB be designed by the team but then produced by an 
> outside company?

Yes.
 
> 2) Does the cost of the PCB count against the $100 part limit?

No.

> 3) What is the allowed size of the custom enclosure box (or is it a 
> specific box) ?

It is a specific box.  Check the right column in the Additional
Hardware List for the enclosure manufacturer and part number.  The
enclosure is sold by both Digi-Key and Future Electronics and
probably others.  Exact dimensions for the enclosure are available on
the manufacturer's web site.

-----
ER





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Message: 19
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:14:31 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: timing belts


> I'm sorry to ask what seems like the same question again.
> Under the "Rope, Belts, & Chain" section of the AHL there were two 
> separate entries:
> "Chain/Belt  |  Any length"
> and
> "Timing Belt  |  Up to 20', single or double sided"
> 
> In tmup1 under "ADDITIONAL HARDWARE LIST CORRECTIONS" it reads:
> "The <timing> belt entry has been changed to the following:" 
> "<Belt> |  Any size, Any length for use with pulleys" <emphasis 
mine>
> 
> Does this mean timing belt material may not be used for wheels or 
> tracks if not run on or attached to pulleys?
> If so; the timing belt may run inverted over a "flat belt" pulley 
> with the teeth facing out, ie. treads?
> 

A: Yes. See Team update #1,2 and addl hw list and post 360.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 20
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:15:46 -0500
   From: Keith McClary <acti@provide.net>
Subject: Hot Melt Glue for connector securing

We are concerned about connectors loosening from the nature
of this year's game.  Wire ties and the shroud on the Victors 
should HELP keep connectors in place, but may not be sufficient
with the expected rough housing. A simple adhesive drop over
the connector/wire combo would be better, as long as it is
removable.

However, the only adhesives specified in the AHL are epoxies 
(five minute epoxy and fiberglass epoxy/hardener). This would 
not be our first choice for securing wires as it would make 
the connection permanent and/or could easily damage both 
the wire and connector if it ever needed to be changed or 
reseated to deal with a bad contact.

Although not a good idea for a general fastener, a very standard 
solution in hobby robotics to keep connectors in place without 
damaging the connectors or the wires is to use a drop of hot 
melt glue.  The temperature is low enough not to melt either
one, and will simply peel off.  Hot melt is a much better 
adhesive for this application, and would solve the problem for 
everyone.

May we all PLEASE be allowed to use a drop of hot melt glue 
over the connector to secure them to prevent vibration from 
loosening them?

Thanks!
- Keith McClary, Advisor Huron High Rat Pack, Team 830
ACTI - Automation Computer Technologies, Inc.



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Message: 21
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:30:44 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loopholes

> A. What is to stop players/spectators from WEARING the retro-
> reflective tape on uniforms or shirts, to spoof opposing alliance 
> robots?
>
> B. With regard to the sensors. Could an IR filter on a rotating
light 
> spoof sensors?

A) Attempts to interfere with other teams' robots are not in the
spirit of the FIRST Robotics Competition and will not be allowed.

While not dealing specifically with attempts to cause interference
with a robot, Rule GM14 states that "... Special clothing and/or
equipment will only be allowed for those who demonstrate a need based
on a physical disability."

Fooling the optical sensors with an IR emitter on the rotating light
would not be legal because IR emitters are not allowed (except as
part of the Custom Circuit Board), and you aren't allowed to modify the rotating light.  It would also be unlikely to work because the optical sensors use visible red light rather than IR, and it is specially pulsed to distinguish it from background light.  (You can actually see the red spot where the optical sensor is projecting if you turn on the sensor in a dark room.)

-----
ER





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Message: 22
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:20:47 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hot Melt Glue for connector securing


> We are concerned about connectors loosening from the nature
> of this year's game.  Wire ties and the shroud on the Victors 
> should HELP keep connectors in place, but may not be sufficient
> with the expected rough housing. A simple adhesive drop over
> the connector/wire combo would be better, as long as it is
> removable.
> 
> However, the only adhesives specified in the AHL are epoxies 
> (five minute epoxy and fiberglass epoxy/hardener). This would 
> not be our first choice for securing wires as it would make 
> the connection permanent and/or could easily damage both 
> the wire and connector if it ever needed to be changed or 
> reseated to deal with a bad contact.
> 
> Although not a good idea for a general fastener, a very standard 
> solution in hobby robotics to keep connectors in place without 
> damaging the connectors or the wires is to use a drop of hot 
> melt glue.  The temperature is low enough not to melt either
> one, and will simply peel off.  Hot melt is a much better 
> adhesive for this application, and would solve the problem for 
> everyone.
> 
> May we all PLEASE be allowed to use a drop of hot melt glue 
> over the connector to secure them to prevent vibration from 
> loosening them?

A) Yes. It would be a fastener or an adhesive, both of which are 
allowed to be used in unlimited quantities.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 23
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:14:18 -0000
   From: "north66203" <north66203@yahoo.com>
Subject: air storage tanks



> Can we start a match with the air storage tank already filled with 
the compresed air or do we have to pressurize the tanks at the start 
of the match??




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Message: 24
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:32:07 -0000
   From: "deltafrathouse" <deltafrathouse@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pneumatics

we never recieved a pneumatics manual with our kit. were they shipped 
late or do we need to fill out a special form for it, because we have 
no idea of the pneumatic rules and limitations.




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Message: 25
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:46:43 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Repair parts after a Regional

> Suppose a part breaks at a regional that requires machining or 
> welding or some other process that we do not have access to at a 
> regional.
> 
> Is there any time after a regional when we can make replacement or 
> repair parts?
> 
> Of course, we will not have our robot, but can we at least make 
> replacement or repair parts?
> 
> While I am at it, how about improved parts?  Is improving a robot 
> allowed after shipdate?  If so when?

A) You may purchase off-the-shelf parts (rod, gears, bearings, etc.)
and bring them to events, but all fabrication work must take place
on site at events.  On site machine shops should include welding and
basic machining capability.  You are welcome to build improved parts
at events.

-----
ER




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