Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:57:53 EST
Subject: Fwd: [FRCtech2002] Digest Number 25


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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Belimo Torque Motor
           From: "roboticats" <bdhsroboticats@hotmail.com>
      2. Reflector and Batteries??
           From: "tdhousten" <thousten@diasemi.com>
      3. Cable Loops for Gripping Goals
           From: "robopsychiatrist" <David.W.Hanby@us.abb.com>
      4. Tape measure question
           From: "bulldog395" <rs46@columbia.edu>
      5. Re: Re: Crate as Pit Work Area
           From: Keith McClary <acti@provide.net>
      6. Dimensions of pits?
           From: "mnkysp6353" <mnkysp6353@aol.com>
      7. Re: Crate as Pit Work Area
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      8. Re: Please Provide Message Number in Subject
           From: "davekolberg2002" <David.Kolberg@Honeywell.com>
      9. Inputs to circuit board box
           From: "Skloss, Tim (MED)" <timothy.skloss@med.ge.com>
     10. How do I connect optical sensors?
           From: "byoungah" <byoungoh@hotmail.com>
     11. Bearings
           From: "Thorin_II" <thorin_ii@yahoo.com>
     12. LED Panel Mounts
           From: "roboticats" <bdhsroboticats@hotmail.com>
     13. is powder legal?
           From: "Ewie_Erik" <ewie_erik@yahoo.com>
     14. Connectors Missing?
           From: "wasssoap" <kenny.ardizzone@motorola.com>
     15. Standard Relays
           From: "dbuddenbohn" <dbuddenbohn@yahoo.com>
     16. Double Solenoid, 1 Relay
           From: "mrd_udhs" <mrd_udhs@yahoo.com>
     17. Split shaft collars and Trantorques
           From: "bbfigi" <bruce.figi@honeywell.com>
     18. plywood
           From: "team7502002" <rworthy@ssc.nasa.gov>
     19. Re: Material Supplier-Acrylic
           From: "andymich2" <andrew.michalicek@honeywell.com>
     20. Re: Turnbuckles
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     21. Re: Crate as Pit Work Area
           From: "awiser0900" <Wiser87@netscape.net>
     22. soccer balls
           From: "firebirdengineering" <ATRAY43@aol.com>
     23. Pillow Blocks
           From: "coolyrd" <tcouilla@chesterfield.k12.va.us>
     24. Suitable Substitutes for Batteries
           From: "unclearphysics" <rneese@tampabay.rr.com>
     25. Bearings
           From: "awiser0900" <Wiser87@netscape.net>


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Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:24:30 -0000
   From: "roboticats" <bdhsroboticats@hotmail.com>
Subject: Belimo Torque Motor

What should the Belimo Torque Motor be powered by? A Relay Module or a 
 Speed controller?
Thanks




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Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:05:39 -0000
   From: "tdhousten" <thousten@diasemi.com>
Subject: Reflector and Batteries??

1. I know you said that the reflective tape can not be used on the 
Robot, and I assume that this is to prevent interference to other 
sensor systems, however could we use a small piece of the tape within 
the Robot such that it is not exposed to the outside, for the purpose 
of 
an optic sensor reflector.  If not can we use a small reflector 
similiar to those provided by BannerEnginnering? 

2. Will batteries from previous years be allowed during the 
competitions? (assuming only one battery in system)

Thanks
 




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Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:50:09 -0000
   From: "robopsychiatrist" <David.W.Hanby@us.abb.com>
Subject: Cable Loops for Gripping Goals

Can a steel cable loop (retractable)be used to attach the goals. The 
diameter of the cable loop would not exceed 12"




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Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:47:29 -0000
   From: "bulldog395" <rs46@columbia.edu>
Subject: Tape measure question

It is disheartening to see the same questions being asked with the 
same lack of answer being given.

A team has asked for a simple yes or no answer to the question, Can a 
tape measure or similar device be deployed across the field into the 
home zone?

Your answer is always be aware of the entanglement rule.  BUT WHY 
CAN"T YOU TELL US HERE AND NOW WHETHER OR NOT THIS WOULD BREAK THE 
ENTANGLEMENT RULE?

Do the judges have to see what happens if a robot rolls over the tape 
measure? If so does this mean that if in one match nothing happens it 
will be legal but say in another match a robot does get "entangled" 
(whatever that means) it would be considered illegal? Can we build 
things onto our robot that are specifically designed to entangle us
on 
any telescoping thingy from another robot...so that we can run over 
someone's device and claim it entangled us? 






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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:54:04 -0500
   From: Keith McClary <acti@provide.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Crate as Pit Work Area

frcengineers wrote:
> > [Question: May we use a "foldout crate" as a workstation in the pit?]
> 
> A) This would be allowable if it will fit inside of your allowed pit
> space (and the pit spaces are not very big).  We also assume that you
> will not be doing machining or other potentially hazardous work from
> this workstation.  That is why we have machine shops available to
> help you.  FIRSTsnow

We too may wish to consider a foldout crate/workstation, but 
need more specifics.  When you say "the pit spaces are not very 
big", that's a bit vague.  It doesn't give us enough info to
figure this out.  Can you please define that a little more precisely?

IMHO, the best way to answer to allow us to design crate/workstations
would be if you could please specify one of the following:
1) The minimum pit space dimensions [W x L] each team will be allocated,
   along with which "face" will be the entrance & exit side or aisle, 
  **OR**
2) A maximum combo crate/workstation dimension set that you feel 
   will safely work in the planned allocated pit area, if less 
   then the original shipping crate maximums.  Assume the crate 
   will be set on one of its sides so we get a "long table" effect.

Thanks!

- Keith McClary, Advisor, Huron High Rat Pack Team 830
ACTI - Automation Computer Technologies, Inc.



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Message: 6
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 04:42:13 -0000
   From: "mnkysp6353" <mnkysp6353@aol.com>
Subject: Dimensions of pits?

What are the dimensions of the pits? And also at what percentage of a 
crate filling up the pit area, would an judge tell the team to move 
the crate out. This crate would be used as a toolbox/storage shed.




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Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:38:41 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Crate as Pit Work Area

> > > [Question: May we use a "foldout crate" as a workstation in the 
pit?]
> > 
> > A) This would be allowable if it will fit inside of your allowed 
pit
> > space (and the pit spaces are not very big).  We also assume that 
you
> > will not be doing machining or other potentially hazardous work 
from
> > this workstation.  That is why we have machine shops available to
> > help you.  FIRSTsnow
> 
> We too may wish to consider a foldout crate/workstation, but 
> need more specifics.  When you say "the pit spaces are not very 
> big", that's a bit vague.  It doesn't give us enough info to
> figure this out.  Can you please define that a little more 
precisely?
> 
> IMHO, the best way to answer to allow us to design 
crate/workstations
> would be if you could please specify one of the following:
> 1) The minimum pit space dimensions [W x L] each team will be 
allocated,
>    along with which "face" will be the entrance & exit side or 
aisle, 
>   **OR**
> 2) A maximum combo crate/workstation dimension set that you feel 
>    will safely work in the planned allocated pit area, if less 
>    then the original shipping crate maximums.  Assume the crate 
>    will be set on one of its sides so we get a "long table" effect.

A) First, pit station dimensions are different at each venue.  We 
cannot give you exact dimensions.  The LARGEST you can count on 
(except for Epcot) is 8' x 8' and it might be a bit smaller or it 
might not be square.  Everything you bring with you including your 
robot, team members, and your crate/workstation (if you think it will 
fit) must fit within thnat space.  That's not to say that team 
members don't occasionally spill into the aisles but the aisles must 
be left open in case of emergency.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 8
   Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:55:55 -0000
   From: "davekolberg2002" <David.Kolberg@Honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: Please Provide Message Number in Subject

--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "frcengineers" <frcengineers@y...> wrote:
> > It is highly requested that the email responses from FRCENGINEERS 
> > please provide the message number in the Subject line.  Many of 
the 
> > answers refer back to the message number but there is no way of 
> > finding which message that is without searching for it in the 
Yahoo 
> > group.  
> 
> A) When we reply, the question (not the original question number) 
is 
> included with our reply and we delete the original question.  
> FIRSTsnow

This is not the problem.  The problem is that FIRST has referenced 
prior postings by number.  That number only exists in the Yahoo 
group.  When you sign up, you can get all the messages sent to your e-
mail.  This is good, it allows for faster searches and all the 
messages are available for review at any time.  However, the problem 
comes in when you reference a posting, there is no record of which 
post that is in the e-mails.  You have to log back in to find which 
post you are referring to.  If post numbers were included in the 
subject, then all the information would be available in the 
downloaded e-mails.

Thank you for your attention.

Dave Kolberg




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Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:19:10 -0600
   From: "Skloss, Tim (MED)" <timothy.skloss@med.ge.com>
Subject: Inputs to circuit board box


1)  Are the inputs to the circuit board box limited to "electrical"
only?  May we pass mechanical, magnetic, acoustical or optical inputs
into the box to interface with internal components?

2)  May we use wire of gauges smaller than 24 for fabricating passive
sensors?  (e.g. insulated magnet wire)

Tim Skloss Team 930



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Message: 10
   Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:29:45 -0000
   From: "byoungah" <byoungoh@hotmail.com>
Subject: How do I connect optical sensors?

I tested optical sensors and found out that its output is 12V or 
more (what ever input is).
So that means I can not connect it directly to the robot controler. 
right?

Then how should I connect it to robot controler?

Do I use relay to connect? 






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Message: 11
   Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:34:09 -0000
   From: "Thorin_II" <thorin_ii@yahoo.com>
Subject: Bearings

Team 776 would like to know if a "lazy suzan" bearing configuration 
would be acceptable under the "any size, any type" bearing rule.  Do 
the bearings have to be constructed under a certain method or by a 
certain company or is any bearing by any company of any size and of 
any type acceptable????




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Message: 12
   Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:04:10 -0000
   From: "roboticats" <bdhsroboticats@hotmail.com>
Subject: LED Panel Mounts

Hello!
What are the LED Panel Mounts included in the Parts Kit for? Are there 
any regulations about colours or what they need to indicate? Do we 
need to include them on our robot?
Thanks a bunch!





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Message: 13
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 03:07:32 -0000
   From: "Ewie_Erik" <ewie_erik@yahoo.com>
Subject: is powder legal?

is it legal for us to use baby powder, or the like, on our robot to 
reduce grip on our ball dumper?




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Message: 14
   Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:45:07 -0000
   From: "wasssoap" <kenny.ardizzone@motorola.com>
Subject: Connectors Missing?

The connectors for the window motors, and the connector for the 
torque motor were not in the parts kit, nor were they listed on the 
parts list.  How do we go about acquiring them?


p.s. If this was asked before, sorry.  Can you point us to the answer?
THANKS!






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Message: 15
   Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:45:43 -0000
   From: "dbuddenbohn" <dbuddenbohn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Standard Relays

Can we use standard relays connected to the pressure sensors and the 
air compressor pump? i.e. the pump will not be controlled by the 
robot controller. 




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Message: 16
   Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:11:11 -0000
   From: "mrd_udhs" <mrd_udhs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Double Solenoid, 1 Relay

Hi,
We are quickly approaching the relay limit, and would like more 
information on how to control a double solenoid with one relay. 
Thanks for any links to sources or personal help. 

-Ken Delaney




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Message: 17
   Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:07:49 -0000
   From: "bbfigi" <bruce.figi@honeywell.com>
Subject: Split shaft collars and Trantorques

Are split shaft collars and transtorques considered shaft coupling or 
fasteners? (i.e. can be purchased from somewhere other than Small 
Parts) 




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Message: 18
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:58:22 -0000
   From: "team7502002" <rworthy@ssc.nasa.gov>
Subject: plywood

Since we can only use sheets of plywood of to 1/2", is it acceptable 
to double up on it?




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Message: 19
   Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:56:54 -0000
   From: "andymich2" <andrew.michalicek@honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: Material Supplier-Acrylic

In post 491, you stated that if Small Parts does not carry colored
acrylic, it could not be used.  Is it permissible, however, under the
rule allowing non-functional decorations?

--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "frcengineers" <frcengineers@y...> wrote:
> > Acrylic sheet is available from Small Parts and, therefore, may be
> > used on the robot.  Does it matter whether we get it from Small
> Parts or another supplier?  We want to use colored rather than clear.
>
> A) You are supposed to try to get it from Small Parts.  If they are
> backordered or out of stock, you may get it any where.  CAUTION: You
> must get the exact same equivalent as you could have gotten from
> Small Parts... and that includes color or clear.  If Small Parts
> doesn't sell the color you would like to use, you cannot use that
> color.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 20
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:38:35 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckles


> Do you consider turnbuckles to be fasteners?

A) Yes, if only used as a fastener.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 21
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 00:52:26 -0000
   From: "awiser0900" <Wiser87@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Crate as Pit Work Area

What do you mean by "the pit spaces are not very big?"  What are the
dimensions?

--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "frcengineers" <frcengineers@y...> wrote:
> > According to your response to message 460, we will not be permitted 
> to leave our crate in the pit area.  However, we designed our crate 
> to fold out and serve as a workstation.  Is this permissible or will 
> we need to work out another arrangements?
> 
> A) This would be allowable if it will fit inside of your allowed pit 
> space (and the pit spaces are not very big).  We also assume that you 
> will not be doing machining or other potentially hazardous work from 
> this workstation.  That is why we have machine shops available to 
> help you.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 22
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:33:10 -0000
   From: "firebirdengineering" <ATRAY43@aol.com>
Subject: soccer balls

How many size 5 soccer balls will a goal hold?




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Message: 23
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:30:23 -0000
   From: "coolyrd" <tcouilla@chesterfield.k12.va.us>
Subject: Pillow Blocks

Small Parts has told us that they are out of stock of pillow blocks 
and do not know when they will be getting more.

Can we obtain similar pillow blocks from a local source?

Thanks,
Tim Couillard
Team 975
Richmond, VA





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Message: 24
   Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:49:50 -0000
   From: "unclearphysics" <rneese@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Suitable Substitutes for Batteries

Team 147 contacted Exide to purchase spare batteries and were directed 
to a local distributor.  We provided the Exide part number for the 
NP18-12B Exide Batteries but were supplied with batteries that do not
have an obvious Exide label and are black in color (part number is 
BBBBP17-12B1).  Their form factor, voltage levels, etc. appear to be 
compatible with the ones supplied in the kit of parts.  May we use 
these batteries in competition?




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Message: 25
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 03:30:09 -0000
   From: "awiser0900" <Wiser87@netscape.net>
Subject: Bearings

On the Additional Hardware list, it says that we can use "Bearings |
Any amount, Any size."  Does this include mounted bearings?




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