Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:12:32 EST
Subject: Fwd: [FRCtech2002] Digest Number 20


------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Robot Starting Position
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      2. Re: Small Motor
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      3. Re: Chiaphua motor
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      4. Re: gripping flanges
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      5. Re: Total Cost if any?
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      6. Re: treads....manufactured from tires
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      7. Re: Position at beginning of round
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      8. Re: starting configuration / setup
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      9. Re: Re: Optical Sensors
           From: "James Hausch" <jhausch@msn.com>
     10. Keep up the good work
           From: Seth Reining <babe_huey@yahoo.com>
     11. Re: throwing balls
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     12. Re: virtual kit of parts
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     13. Re: broken goal pieces
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     14. Re: carpet damage
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     15. Re: Protecting the goal...
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     16. Re: playing field
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     17. Interaction with the Goal
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     18. Re: Robot Ramming
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     19. headphones
           From: "Gary Santoro" <gsantoro@plasti-coat.com>
     20. Re: "50-yd line"
           From: Robbie Stone <robbie@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us>
     21. Re: "50-yd line"
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     22. Sorry to bug again...
           From: "Adam Thompson" <stthomp2@earthlink.net>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:29:40 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Robot Starting Position

Robots must start within a 4' x 6' area in front of either alliance 
driver station and must sit unconstrained in this area within a 36" x 
30" rectangular footprint and be no more that 60" high unconstrained 
at the start of a match as per Rule M2.  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:52:29 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Small Motor

> In the kit there is a motor that has no markings. It is the 
> smallest motor in the kit.  It looks like a motor you would find in 
a remote control car.  The end that connect wires are female 
connectors I looked at several drawings of motors and can not seem to 
> find the specs or if it comes with gears. 

A) The small motor is the Johnson Electric motor.  The specs will be 
in Team Update #3 today.  It has no mating gears of any sort.  
FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:56:25 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chiaphua motor

Q: >>I remember hearing (with alarm) that the gears on the shaft of 
the Chiaphua
                motor and it's mate were 25¡ pressure angle.  Is the 
pitch dia. and
                modulus/dia.pitch of each known? Also the matching 
gear has two sections,
                one seems to be a good mate, and the other one 
doesn't, with indicates it's
                characteristics are different. Do we know the 
characteristics of this gear
                as well?

                Sam Lindhorst
                Team #240

A: This information should be in Team Update #2.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:58:09 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: gripping flanges

Q: >>When gripping goals, is it permissible to attach to the flanges 
above 
                and/or below the pipe nipple? To make incidental 
contact with the 
                flange?

                Team 135
                Penn Robotics <<

A: Yes and yes.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:04:29 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Total Cost if any?

> What is the total cost if any that the team can spend on their 
> robots?

A) No limit.  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:07:25 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: treads....manufactured from tires

> Are we allowed to use cut up tire portion of Skyway wheels to coat 
> the tracks which propel our robot?

A) Yes.  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:12:30 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Position at beginning of round

> I have a question about the starting position of robots on the 
> field.  Say for example I was robot A.  Do I need to keep my 
control system in station A and do I need to start my robot in 
position A?  

A) The Control System must be located where your Team Number is 
displayed but your robot can be in either of your allinace's starting 
positions.  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:11:07 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: starting configuration / setup

Q: >>We know that the robot dimensions are 3' x 2.5' x 5', but does 
that 
                mean it has to be 5' tall, or can it also be 5' 
lengthwise?  We 
                understand that there is a box that the robot has to 
fit into, but is 
                it legal to stand the robot on end to fit in this box? 
 

                Thanks, 
                OHS #396 <<

A: Sorry for the delay. The *starting* configuration must follow the 
dimensions laid out as posted today in message 423. The 5' dimension 
cannot be along the ground at the start of the match. After the 
match has started, the robot can expand, of course following the 
expansion rules.

We have deleted a number of duplicate posts around this question 
instead of replying individually to each one.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 06:12:36 -0600
   From: "James Hausch" <jhausch@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Optical Sensors

Try www.bannerengineering.com

The sensor is the "QS18 WorldBeam"


>From: frcengineers
>Reply-To: FRCtech2002@yahoogroups.com
>To: FRCtech2002@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [FRCtech2002] Re: Optical Sensors
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:14:56 -0000
>
>Q: >> After looking through the parts checklist, and visiting "Banner
>Electronics" website, I have been unable to find documentation on the
>specific optical sensors included in the kit.
>
>Where can I obtain doccumentation on the included optical sensors. <<
>
>A: Look in Appendix G, pg 12-13 for the part specifications.
>
>-M4
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>FRCtech2002-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:28:06 -0800 (PST)
   From: Seth Reining <babe_huey@yahoo.com>
Subject: Keep up the good work


 I know you all have been working very hard to keep all the teams straight on how to interpt rules and i've also heard teams complaining about inconsistancy, i for one would like to thank you all very much for preforming this service this year. don't lose faith, some of us do know how to read the manual.. thank you again.
-Seth Reining of the X-cat's team 191



"There's alot of things you never see, and you don't know you don't see 'em cause ya don't see em, you got see something first to know you never saw it then you see it then say 'hey, i've never saw that' to late you just saw it" -George Carlin



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail.

[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:07:01 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: throwing balls

Q: >>Is it allowed to intentionally throw balls out of play? Thank you 
for your time. Travis Johnson

A: Be careful of the safety rules. 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:55:20 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: virtual kit of parts

Q: >>Do you have any knowledge of why we still have not received our 
information needed to access the "virtual kit of parts"?  I have sent 
2 e-mails giving information required under team update #2 to the e-
mail address indicated and still do not have an account number and 
password so that we can access this information.  Has anyone else had 
this same problem?

Thanks in advance

Sandra Beall
Team 807
Code Blue Robotics <<

A: The original date for applying to Autodesk 
(first.entries@autodesk.com) for an id was 12/21. However - honestly - 
we're not sure that that was communicated clearly enough to teams. A 
lot of requests have gone in in the last two weeks, and there is a 
large backlog now. All we can say is, we appreciate your patience and 
we are directly checking into it with Autodesk.

-MW




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:06:30 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: broken goal pieces

Q: >>If we accidently break one of the PVC tubes (conduit) on the 
goal by trying to insert or remove a ball, does our team get 
penalized?<<

A: If you didn't break rule GM22, no you wouldn't get penalized.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:35:55 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: carpet damage

> A concern has been raised that there is a potential for carpet 
> bunching.  This year the game has been designed to include power 
> struggles.  This will take place on carpet that has not been glued 
> down.  Will leniency be granted for robots in a shoving match 
> bunching up the carpet?

A) Hard to answer definitively. This will be a Referee's best 
judgement.  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:57:40 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Protecting the goal...

> Is it legal to pin the goal between a robot and the side boundary?  
> In other words, can you wedge the goal between your robot and the 
> edge of the playing field in order to prevent another robot from 
> moving it?

A) Yes but please read M6 and GM18.  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:59:26 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: playing field

> What type of material is under the playing field carpet?

A) Whatever the venue floor is.  FIRST does not put any padding under 
the carpet.  The carpet is placed directly onto the venue floor.  
FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:31:23 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Interaction with the Goal

Refer to M6 and GM18.

The goal can be grabbed in the area between the upper and lower 
plywood decks by grabbing the nipples.  The flages are considered 
part of the nipples.

The lower surface of the upper deck and the upper surface of the 
lower deck can be incidentally touched.   By this, we mean that it 
can be touched but if you apply enough pressure to either or both 
surfaces such that the goal can be pulled or pushed, we consider you 
attached to this/these surface(s) and this is not allowed.

The upper and lower decks have stainless steel edges.  These edges 
cannot be grabbed but the vertical surfaces of these edges can be 
pushed on in order to move the goal.

The goal can be lifted by grabbing the nipples.  The goal can leave 
the playing field surface but upending (tipping over) of the goal is 
not allowed.  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 18
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:51:29 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Robot Ramming

> As a veteran of FIRST, I have been in many matches in which robots 
> have aggressively made contact.  As per GM17 "Robot shoving will be 
> allowed and is expected to be quite common."  In DQ3 "Intentional 
> stabbing, cutting is illegal".  I would like FIRST to consider 
> updating DQ3 to address team strategies in which the sole purpose 
is to damage opponent robots.  This is of particular importance since 
> teams must ship their robots from event to event, making repair of 
> serious structural damage extremely difficult.  I realize the 
extent of how intentionally a team makes contact with other robots is 
a judgement call for the referees, however, I believe FIRST needs to 
> emphasize the difference between intentional and incidental contact.

A) FIRST believes DQ3 is sufficiently clear.  There is no question 
that Referees will have to be well versed in the rules and prevent 
intentional damage... which clearly is not "gracious 
professionalism."  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:16:29 -0500
   From: "Gary Santoro" <gsantoro@plasti-coat.com>
Subject: headphones

If a driver was blind and/or severely sight impaired, would he/she be
allowed to use headphones in the driver station which received input from a
laptop computer connected solely to the control system? From which, either
through tones or synthesized voice, gave commands to the driver so he/she
could locate goals and/or balls on the playing field. 



[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:40:01 -0800
   From: Robbie Stone <robbie@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us>
Subject: Re: "50-yd line"

Hi,

For the sake of using optical sensors to detect the line on the 
carpeting could FIRST please make a more specific determination of the 
type and color of the dividers?

Thanks,

Robbie Stone
Team 8
Palo Alto High School
Palo ALto, CA

wasssoap wrote:

> Will there now be a line of tape on the carpet to divide the entire 
> field into halves?  Perhaps a dotted line or construction-zone tape 
> or tape of a different color? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FRCtech2002-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:00:42 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "50-yd line"

> For the sake of using optical sensors to detect the line on the 
> carpeting, could FIRST please make a more specific determination of 
the type and color of the dividers?

A) The tape dividing the Zones is Polyken 203 white, 2" wide x 60 yds 
long.  There will be no line dividing the field halves.  FIRSTsnow




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
   Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:30:52 -0500
   From: "Adam Thompson" <stthomp2@earthlink.net>
Subject: Sorry to bug again...

In addition, please read and re-read your manual and review the FIRST website.


[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________