Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:11:24 EST
Subject: Fwd: [FRCtech2002] Digest Number 19


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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: A Few Questions relating to rules, Pneumatics, and Aluminum!
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      2. Re: Materials
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      3. Re: Galvanized Pipe
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      4. Pneumatic Cylinders Redux
           From: "waboudx" <waboud@adelphia.net>
      5. Re: entanglement with a rigid object
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      6. Re: solenoids
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      7. Re: goal touching
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      8. Atwood Mobile Chiaphua motor
           From: "team236" <team236@region18.org>
      9. Re: Atwood Mobile Chiaphua motor
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     10. motor specifications/Gear Questions
           From: "vanduynk" <vanduynk@yahoo.com>
     11. Re: motor specifications
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     12. Re: Belts for treads.
           From: "neillmeans" <neillmeans@yahoo.com>
     13. Small Motor
           From: "wlsmitt" <wlsmitt@home.com>
     14. cluster gear
           From: "phish814" <phish814@yahoo.com>
     15. Re: cluster gear
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     16. treads....manufactured from tires
           From: "joyyoungnetmail2000" <joyyoungnetmail2000@yahoo.com>


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Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:49:50 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A Few Questions relating to rules, Pneumatics, and Aluminum!

> 1) We are curious as to what is the definition for the
> "entanglement" rules, and what qualifies as a tether
> to a part of the robot (including minimum
> requirements)?

A) This has been answered many times (since your question was 
submitted).  FIRSTsnow


> 2) The rules or manual states that we are allowed to
> use/have 5 pneumatic cylinders on the robot, however,
> are we allowed to purchase more as back ups?

A) No.  FIRSTsnow

 
> 3)For materials and parts, we are allowed to order and
> use anything from Small Parts.  They offer block
> aluminum, however, the rules or manual states that it
> should be 1/4 of an inch thick at whatever length. 
> Which is the rule to follow?

A) You can use material from the Additional Hardware List and 
anything from Small Parts.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:59:11 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Materials

> Can we use paper mache to decorate our robot?  I'm not sure if it's 
> on the approved parts list, but a few members on our team want to 
> have a little fun with it, and it seems mostly harmless.  Are there 
> any restrictions?

A) Read Rule M9.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:05:47 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Galvanized Pipe

> I would like to know if galvanized pipe is allowed as EMT, or under 
> some other additional hardware allowance.

A) You must use EMT.  It is a thin-walled galvanized pipe but the 
only one allowed UNLESS Small Parts sells some other galvanized 
products which would be allowed.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 4
   Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:54:36 -0000
   From: "waboudx" <waboud@adelphia.net>
Subject: Pneumatic Cylinders Redux

I'm confused. There is one cylinder in the Pneumatics kit. We can 
order 4 more. Yet you say that the limit is 7. Where do we get the 
other two?




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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:20:42 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: entanglement with a rigid object

Q: >>I recall in previous messages that loose strings for tethers and 
such extended across the floor will be considered entanglement under 
all situations. My question concerns whether wire or string running 
along a rigid object that is continuous with the robot but extended 
across the playing field (not a projectile) will be considered in 
this ruling of entanglement. 

I have not seen anything against a rigid object blocking off 
portions of the field as long as it is part of the robot, so am i 
correct in assuming that that is allowed? <<

A: It depends. The rigid object and the wire or string could get hung 
up on another robot or a goal during the match. What if it detaches 
during the match? The people inspecting it and the referees will use 
common sense. The final decision will be up to them.

-M4




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Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:23:01 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: solenoids

Q: >>Are we permitted to have more solenoids than given for 
additional 
cylinders, or are we limited to what we have?

A: No, you're limited.




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Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:37:49 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: goal touching

Q:>> Are we allowed to have parts of our robot resting on the PVC of 
the
goal so long as they do not attach to it?
<<
A: Yes, your robot can make contact with the PVC of the goal. Rule GM 
22 & 20.

-M4




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Message: 8
   Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:22:23 -0000
   From: "team236" <team236@region18.org>
Subject: Atwood Mobile Chiaphua motor

We can't seem to find any documentation on the Atwood Mobile Chiaphua 
motor.  It is not in the manual.  Where can we find the specs?  
Here's what is printed on the side of the motor:

Atwood Mobile
MPD 71119 12V DC
PC-44F-1001
E186696 I/P
200W AOM
100801

We have checked the Chiaphua website and can't seem to find the 
motor.  We checked the Atwood Mobile site and they didn't mention 
anything about what motor they used or what the specs were.  Where is 
it???

Team 236
Techno Ticks




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Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:27:29 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Atwood Mobile Chiaphua motor

> We can't seem to find any documentation on the Atwood Mobile 
Chiaphua 
> motor.  It is not in the manual.  Where can we find the specs?  
> Here's what is printed on the side of the motor:
> 
> Atwood Mobile
> MPD 71119 12V DC
> PC-44F-1001
> E186696 I/P
> 200W AOM
> 100801
> 
> We have checked the Chiaphua website and can't seem to find the 
> motor.  We checked the Atwood Mobile site and they didn't mention 
> anything about what motor they used or what the specs were.  Where 
is 
> it???
> 
> If you haven't already found this information, please refer to the 
Team update #1 posted on the FIRST web site
FIRST-t




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Message: 10
   Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 05:27:32 -0000
   From: "vanduynk" <vanduynk@yahoo.com>
Subject: motor specifications/Gear Questions

Two Questions

1.)In team update #1 you supplied information of motor specifications
such as rpm, Hp, Amp Draw, and output Torque for normal, maximum load
and stall for the atwood motor.  Would you please give us the same
information for the remaining motors in the kit, it would be very
helpful in the designing of the robot to know these parameters either
as the specs for just the motors themselves along with the specs for
the gear reductions that come mounted on them, or as the output of the
motor gearbox combination.  

2.) Also is it permissable to manufacure our own gears out of steel,
alluminum or brass,  if so does the limit of build materials apply?
Example: the specs say we can use up to 2 x 3" cross section Alumminum
and aluminum or steel plate up to 1/4" thick but if a gear needs to be
constructed that is thicker that 1/4" and with a diameter gereater
than 2" how would that be done even though we may buy gears these sizes?

Thanks in advance.




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Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:35:20 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: motor specifications

> Two Questions
> 
> 1.)In team update #1 you supplied information of motor 
specifications
> such as rpm, Hp, Amp Draw, and output Torque for normal, maximum 
load
> and stall for the atwood motor.  Would you please give us the same
> information for the remaining motors in the kit, it would be very
> helpful in the designing of the robot to know these parameters 
either
> as the specs for just the motors themselves along with the specs for
> the gear reductions that come mounted on them, or as the output of 
the
> motor gearbox combination.  

For more complete specifications on the motors provided in the 2002 
kit of parts, please look at the spread sheet provided on 
www.nuts4first.net website.  This information was provided at the 
Kick off workshop held in Manchester NH.
> 
> 




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Message: 12
   Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:30:12 -0000
   From: "neillmeans" <neillmeans@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Belts for treads.

Now, I am really confused!

Team_Update#1 states that Timing belt is now like any other belt, but 
it would appear that the specific use of "belt" has changed.

Team_Update#2 states "This entry is now being deleted because BELT is 
already allowed per the CHAIN / BELT entry in the "Ropes, Belts & 
Chain" category. This means you are allowed to use any type and 
amount of belt on the robot."

Nowhere in Team_update#1 or #2 does it *specifically* state the usage 
restriction of "belt" has been added except as a blerb that 
references "timing belt" changes. typo?

Q1)  What is the current official entry for the use of "Belt" and 
the "Belt Usage Restricitons"

Q2)  If the word "pulley" is used in the restriction of belt usage, 
then what defines "pulley".  My interpretation of pully is "anything 
round that a belt rides around".

Please, this needs to be "officially" clarified, otherwise a lot of 
teams are going to make fatal design choices because of 
ambiguous/changing rules.  Only 4.8 more weeks left...

Neill Means
Team #933









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Message: 13
   Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:23:23 -0000
   From: "wlsmitt" <wlsmitt@home.com>
Subject: Small Motor

       In the kit there is a motor that has no markings. It is the 
smallest motor in the kit. It looks like a motor you would find in a 
remote control car. The end that connect wires are female connectors
       I looked at several drawings of motors and can not seem to 
find the specs or if it comes with gears. 
       Its not the chiaphua, or the mabuchi (per drawings)







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Message: 14
   Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:23:50 -0000
   From: "phish814" <phish814@yahoo.com>
Subject: cluster gear

Where is the pitch diameter of the 44 tooth supplied cluster gear and 
the pitch diameter of the Atwood motor shaft?




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Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 02:12:04 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: cluster gear

> Where is the pitch diameter of the 44 tooth supplied cluster gear 
and 
> the pitch diameter of the Atwood motor shaft?

Please refer to Team update#2 page 5 for more information regarding 
the gear provided for the Atwood motor.
FIRST-t




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Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:12:22 -0000
   From: "joyyoungnetmail2000" <joyyoungnetmail2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: treads....manufactured from tires

Are we allowed to use cut up tire portion of Skyway wheels to coat 
the tracks which propel our robot?




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