Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:30:08 EST
Subject: Fwd: [FRCtech2002] Digest Number 6

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There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Project Timeline available
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      2. Entanglement rules!
           From: "psycho_phil2" <psycho.phil@gmx.de>
      3. Re: Chairman's Award
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      4. RE: lifting other robots
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      5. Re: Entanglement rules!
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      6. Number & Availability of Pneumatic cylinders
           From: "robotics" <first@pocketjoshua.com>
      7. Re: Number & Availability of Pneumatic cylinders
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      8. Re: Virtual Kit of Parts
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      9. Team Update #2 posted
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     10. Splitting hairs...
           From: "drjoe047" <joseph.m.johnson@delphiauto.com>
     11. Re: rule GM20
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     12. Re: Regarding GM20
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     13. RE: Small Parts and Software Licenses
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     14. RE: Video submissions
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     15. Re: Rules of contact
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>


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Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:39:35 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Project Timeline available

The Robot Timeline, a MS Project file, is now available for download. 
Please go to the Files section of this message board, or go to the 
Getting Started area of our website starting Monday 1/14 to download 
the file. Enjoy!




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Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:09:28 -0000
   From: "psycho_phil2" <psycho.phil@gmx.de>
Subject: Entanglement rules!

We know that you already answered two questions of this kind, but we 
would really appreciate if you could answer this question in detail 
for us, it may be slightly different from the asked ones:


1. Is it allowed to let the robot "shoot" a small piece of metall or 
wood across the playing field during a match if it is attached to a 
piece of string? Would a team be disqualified for the fact that they 
shot it or only if any robot gets stuck/entangled in the cord or 
metall/wood piece? (For example would it be considered okay if it is 
shot precisely in a straight line 5 seconds before a match ends and 
all other robots are far enough away so that they can't get 
entangeled because they can't move so far in the last seconds to get 
entangeled or if the cord lies flat on the ground so that every robot 
would drive over it without getting entangeled? We are aware of rules 
DQ3 and M16.

2. If a robot would be able to be in both home zones at a time, would 
both alliances get 10 points for this robot?

Your help is greatly appreciated, thank you!




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Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:47:08 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chairman's Award

>Q: Can the submission format be in HTML??

A: If you store HTML files on the CD you send in, yes. Do not make the 
judges figure out which files they are supposed to open, though. 
Create an index file similar to a home page that will let them open 
all the files they need to.

M4




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Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:50:30 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: lifting other robots

> Q: Hi i see in the rules that you can't flip a robot over on 
purpose, but my teamates and I were wondering if a robot was able to 
lift up another robot and carry it into the homezone so they can get 
the points?

A: Yes.

M4




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Message: 5
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:00:15 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Entanglement rules!

--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "psycho_phil2" <psycho.phil@g...> wrote:
> We know that you already answered two questions of this kind, but we 
> would really appreciate if you could answer this question in detail 
> for us, it may be slightly different from the asked ones:
> 
> 
> 1. Is it allowed to let the robot "shoot" a small piece of metall or 
> wood across the playing field during a match if it is attached to a 
> piece of string? Would a team be disqualified for the fact that they 
> shot it or only if any robot gets stuck/entangled in the cord or 
> metall/wood piece? (For example would it be considered okay if it is 
> shot precisely in a straight line 5 seconds before a match ends and 
> all other robots are far enough away so that they can't get 
> entangeled because they can't move so far in the last seconds to get 
> entangeled or if the cord lies flat on the ground so that every 
robot 
> would drive over it without getting entangeled? We are aware of 
rules 
> DQ3 and M16.
> 
A.) Under the entanglement rules, a piece of string would present a 
risk of entanglement - regardless of when it is shot across the 
field. So the team would be disqualified. (This was answered 
separately but only posted today, and this is a good example for 
clarification. Please refer to Entanglement Clarification post.)

> 2. If a robot would be able to be in both home zones at a time, 
would 
> both alliances get 10 points for this robot?

A.) Yes. Also in another post from today. <*> THAT <*> will be an 
interesting robot. ;-)
> 
> Your help is greatly appreciated, thank you!

M4




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Message: 6
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 00:13:15 -0500
   From: "robotics" <first@pocketjoshua.com>
Subject: Number & Availability of Pneumatic cylinders

Hello,

The Pneumatics appendix states that one cylinder comes as part of the Kit 
of parts.  Additionally, it states that teams may be limited to 
approximately 4 custom cylinders.

What is the exact maximum number of pneumatic cylinders permitted on a 
robot?  We would like to use more then 5.

Additionally, if we order our four custom cylinders and discover that we 
need to make a design change requiring additional cylinders to replace 
some we already acquired, what source is available for a team to acquire 
additional cylinders?

Is it acceptable to use Bimba cylinders that meet the specifications of 
the available sizes and strokes provided by a supplier other then though 
FIRST?

Are all the custom order cylinders manufactured by Bimba?

If they are not all manufactured by Bimba:
Do the specifications in the pneumatics appendix cover all the 
possibilities of cylinders we may receive?

If there are any specifications for cylinders not already published can 
you make them available?

Is there any possibility of a specification for a double rod end 
cylinder?  It would be nice to have matching pressure surface areas on 
each side of the stroke?

Are there any specifications on how or in what manner it is permissible 
to compress a tube to prevent flow of air through a tube? I ask because 
this method has the potential for serious damage or injury if a 
pressurized tube is punctured?  For instance I assume that it would not 
be permissible to compress a tube on the high-pressure side of the 
pneumatics system.  Truthfully I canāt see the point in doing that but it 
is possible.

Is there any possibility of adding additional plug valves to the robot to 
permit safe and controlled venting of a pneumatic system instead of the 
whole system at once?

Ok I think you get the point.  Enough already.

Thanks in advance.

Joshua Lynn
Team 300, 444, 487





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Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:05:20 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Number & Availability of Pneumatic cylinders

Wow. Initial, partial response - up to 7 pneumatic cylinders is 
permitted. The rest of the questions we will work on shortly.

M4

--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "robotics" <first@p...> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> The Pneumatics appendix states that one cylinder comes as part of 
the Kit 
> of parts.  Additionally, it states that teams may be limited to 
> approximately 4 custom cylinders.
> 
> What is the exact maximum number of pneumatic cylinders permitted on 
a 
> robot?  We would like to use more then 5.
> 
> Additionally, if we order our four custom cylinders and discover 
that we 
> need to make a design change requiring additional cylinders to 
replace 
> some we already acquired, what source is available for a team to 
acquire 
> additional cylinders?
> 
> Is it acceptable to use Bimba cylinders that meet the specifications 
of 
> the available sizes and strokes provided by a supplier other then 
though 
> FIRST?
> 
> Are all the custom order cylinders manufactured by Bimba?
> 
> If they are not all manufactured by Bimba:
> Do the specifications in the pneumatics appendix cover all the 
> possibilities of cylinders we may receive?
> 
> If there are any specifications for cylinders not already published 
can 
> you make them available?
> 
> Is there any possibility of a specification for a double rod end 
> cylinder?  It would be nice to have matching pressure surface areas 
on 
> each side of the stroke?
> 
> Are there any specifications on how or in what manner it is 
permissible 
> to compress a tube to prevent flow of air through a tube? I ask 
because 
> this method has the potential for serious damage or injury if a 
> pressurized tube is punctured?  For instance I assume that it would 
not 
> be permissible to compress a tube on the high-pressure side of the 
> pneumatics system.  Truthfully I can't see the point in doing that 
but it 
> is possible.
> 
> Is there any possibility of adding additional plug valves to the 
robot to 
> permit safe and controlled venting of a pneumatic system instead of 
the 
> whole system at once?
> 
> Ok I think you get the point.  Enough already.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Joshua Lynn
> Team 300, 444, 487




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Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:17:28 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Virtual Kit of Parts

Link now available in Getting Started and Team Resources areas. Direct 
link is www.autodesk.com/streamline, but you will need an account to 
see the VKOP, and plan on using Internet Explorer to view, not 
Netscape, Opera or others.

M4




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Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:27:00 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team Update #2 posted

Team Update #2 has been posted. 
Summary list of contents:
- Contacting FIRST
- Small Parts 
- Victor 884 Speed Controller
- Add'l HW list corrections
- Rules update on tiebreakers
- Soccer balls
- Field corrections
- Kit of Parts: Pulley bag & sensor bag contents
- Atwood Mobile Chiapua motor
- Main Circuit Breaker characteristics
- Free Parts !!
- VKOP from Autodesk Streamline
- PBASIC Program for Goal Tracking
- Manchester Kickoff Workshop video

Direct link: http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2002/tmup2.pdf




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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:00:35 -0000
   From: "drjoe047" <joseph.m.johnson@delphiauto.com>
Subject: Splitting hairs...

I would really like clear anwswers to the following questions:

Setup:

Suppose there is a robot that can split down the middle.  

Suppose that at the start of the match, the robot splits with only a 
30 ft bundle of wires connecting them.

Assume that it is a bundle of four 10 gauge wires and four 16 gauge 
wires.  Also assume that they are strain relieved and bundled 
appropriately.  

Question A:
Is it legal for such a robot to drive around the entire match in this 
fashion?

Question B:
Would the answer change if the tether was longer or shorter?

Question C:
Would the answer change if the robots did not split until the last 
few seconds of a match?

Question D:
Would the answer change if the bundle of wires was made of more 
bigger wires, more wires, smaller wires or fewer wires?

Question E1:
If there is some situation that such a case would be legal, would 
such a robot be found in violation of rule that prohibits going under 
the goal (GM20) if the goal was pushed up over the tether by another 
robot?

Question E2:
If there is some situation that such a case would be legal, would 
such a robot be found in violation of rule that prohibits going under 
the goal (GM20) if one half of robot went around a goal one way and 
the other half went around the robot the other way and the bundle 
went under the lower plywood base?

Please answer as clearly and as quickly as you can.  

I know that there are a lot of folks who are designing robots based 
on assumptions that this or that case will be legal or illegal.  I 
think it would be bad for teams to discover that a robot they maded 
was illegal at a competition.  It would be perhaps equally bad to 
have a robot beat you that you wanted to build but thought that it 
was illegal to do so.

Thanks in advance.

Dr Joe











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Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:28:40 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: rule GM20

Q: Rule GM20 clarification regarding unpending goal.
can we transfer some of the goal dead load to the bot by attaching to 
the 1 1/4" pipes by lifting one side.

A: Yes.

M4




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Message: 12
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:36:00 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Regarding GM20

Q: I have a question regarding GM20 bullet 3.  It states that "a robot 
                may not intentionally deploy any sort of mechanism 
below the bottom 
                plywood base of the goal".  Would it be acceptable for 
a robot to 
                deploy something under the goal (let's say a string) 
whose sole 
                purpose is for zone scoring but does not touch any 
part of the 
                underside of the goal?

A: No, this would not be acceptable under either entanglement or rule 
GM20.

M4




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Message: 13
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:39:58 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Small Parts and Software Licenses

Q: What is the process for registering
                with 
                Small Parts Inc.?

A: Please refer to team update #2, or Appendix D of the Robot Manual.

Q: Also, another question came up at my school. On how many computers 
we 
are allowed to install the software we received with our kit of parts?

A: The software you've been granted from Microsoft and Autodesk is a 
single-machine license. One machine, one copy. Not a server. 
Installing the software on multiple machines is a copyright violation. 
If your team / school would like a site license or server license, 
please contact the respective vendors.

M4




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Message: 14
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:51:31 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Video submissions

Q: As far as the Chairman's and Animation submissions are 
concerned, would it be permissible to submit a DVD instead of a VHS?

A: No, unfortunately, because not all of the judges' equipment will be 
able to read DVDs. This may contradict an earlier reply.

M4




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Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:34:44 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rules of contact

Q: Team 274 wants to know what the level of contact allowed in Zone 
                Zeal? Are we allowed to push around other robots for 
the sake of not 
                allowing them in other zones? If not, what are the 
exact limitations 
                of pushing around robots this year?

                Thank You,
                Nicolas Shayko

                Team 274 Rhodes HS

A: Please refer to rule DQ3.

M4




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